John LaRoy shares his insights on building and growing a successful apparel decoration business, emphasizing the importance of staying up-to-date with industry trends, investing in new technologies, and creating a unique brand identity on the DTF Printing Podcast.
He also discusses inventory management, overcoming business challenges through self-awareness, and adapting to changes in the industry. Additionally, John shares his experiences and insights on digital textile printing, including the importance of understanding color reproduction, maintaining equipment, and building trust with customers.
Finally, John discusses the challenges and opportunities in the industry, including the need for proper execution and maintenance, and the potential issues with adhesion, colorfastness, and wash fastness due to the influx of new players in the market.
Key Highlights
• Lean manufacturing, internal sales management, and DTF production with industry veteran John LaRoy. 0:00
• Athletic apparel, playing college sports, and entrepreneurship. 1:02
• Quality vs cost in sports uniforms. 6:19
• College athletes’ new NIL rights and potential impact on sports and apparel industry. 11:31
• Rebranding decoration services, including Swift Stitch, Pro Print, and Fast Flex. 16:04
• Creating internal sales management system for contract decorator, including benefits and challenges. 20:58
• Implementing Lean manufacturing principles to improve inventory process and company growth. 26:05
• Improving apparel business efficiency through lean manufacturing and video storytelling. 31:33
• Leadership, teamwork, and embracing change in a contract decorating business. 37:11
• Implementing DTF technology in-house, with focus on quality and consistency. 42:14
• Challenges and benefits of introducing digital printing technology for apparel decoration. 47:41
• The challenges of digital transfer printing, including color matching and maintenance. 54:18
• DTF printing with John LaRoy, covering business and production aspects. 59:38
Presentation Transcription
Adrienne Palmer 00:00
Today on the 19th episode of The DTF printing podcast, we’re talking about the benefits of lean manufacturing, having an internal sales management system and bringing DTF in house. Welcome to the DTF printing Podcast. I’m Adriene Palmer, editor in chief of DTF printing. Before we get into this episode, I would love to get your feedback. You can always email me at adrian@dtfprinting.com for topic ideas and speaker suggestions, and don’t forget to like, review and subscribe. If this is your first time listening, be sure to check out all episodes at dtfprinting.com/podcast on today’s episode, I’m talking to John Leroy, CEO of apparel redefined in Crestwood, Illinois. So John apparel redefined was founded in 1970 and then reinvigorated in 2007 and you’ve been in the industry for 18 years, so my guess is you were part of that change. Yeah,
John LaRoy 00:54
in 2007 so yeah, I came on board in 2006 when I say on board, there wasn’t much to be on board. It was only three of us, and fresh out of college, didn’t really know what I wanted to do, but wanted to stay close to the game, essentially, you know, coming from college athlete, you know, playing baseball and hockey. I got back into coaching right away, out of, out of out of school, and just kind of like it was substitute teaching at my old high school and coaching high school baseball. And it’s interesting, at the time under armor and Nike, like really started releasing moisture management fabric. And South Side of Chicago a lot of Catholic parochial schools. And how do you recruit talent? I mean, it started even like back then, right? And you had to be, you know, one of the ways we, we’ve kind of figured out how to recruit talent was you gotta have the cool stuff, right? And at the same time was figuring out, like, hey, my dad’s buddy owned a screen printing company, and he owned a sporting goods store, and he’s like, Hey, I really need help. Would you mind helping me out there? I’m like, sure. What the heck I’m, you know, 22 if I fall on my face in five years, I’ll figure it out. So I kind of did like, a six month, like, trial, where I just worked there and, like, learned as much as I could. And then I’m like, Okay, well, I could kind of leverage this to get under armor, and, you know, the Nike stuff, and I started putting the high schools, Marist high school stuff on there to to attract better talent. And after about a year, I’m like, you know, I really like this. And you know, I’ve always wanted all my own business. I just didn’t really know and what. So let’s, let’s give it a go. And then we just kind of, like unknowingly, kind of started carving our own niche, right? It just got immersed in the industry. I mean, at the time, we were only doing screen print. It was old school, like, like I said, it was found in 1970 so we had like, 6000 old school, like, tiny hand stretched wooden frames and just low to account of coals. But like the old, you know, owners would hand staple everything. So pull out all the staples, and I’m like, we got to move into not even the New Age, like just the Middle Ages, right? So replaced all those with, like static aluminum. Got our first auto, you know, and just kind of grew from there. And then really just started like, Hey, we’re going to be an athletic decorator. And really started carving our niche there and added to the team. Now, we have 60 plus employees. We moved into our current facility. Our first facility is only 2500 square feet. We’re in about 27,000 now, and we’re in the process of building a new 60,000 square foot facility as we speak. So yeah, it’s been, it’s been quite the journey in 18 years. But yeah, that’s a little bit of the backstory. Well,
Adrienne Palmer 03:50
congratulations on that expansion. Okay, back to you playing in college, high school, at baseball and hockey. Were you paying attention at all to the apparel you were wearing. Did it matter to you then, or was that kind of just brought on when you were a little bit offered this position?
John LaRoy 04:09
I always pay in touch. I mean, look good, play good, right? Like, especially like, as you got closer to 1718, where you’re like, really? I mean, this was before social media, way before, you know, we even have cell phones. Sounds like we’re talking like the 1930s but, you know, it says this is like late 90s, early 2000s and of course, you were concerned with what you look like, and you wanted to be comfortable but functional, you know what I mean, and that especially in baseball, because, I mean, that was, like old school material where it was really heavy all tackle 12, which is fine, and it’s actually starting to come back now, but, and interesting you bring that up, like, look at what’s Major League Baseball right now. Like, what a disaster with fanatics and all that type of stuff, and Nike. But, yeah, it was done. Concerned, you know, because you’re looking around all the other teams in the conference, and there’s an arms race at the time, you know, like, who’s got the coolest stuff, Nike and under armor at the collegiate time, weren’t huge players. You know, it was like some of the old school brands, Russell and Rawlings and stuff like that. Were pretty dominant in baseball, Bower and hockey and warrior, but, yeah, it was always something like, this looks cool, but not really having more than like, I wish I knew how to made it. Make it, you know what? I mean, it was just like, I want to look cool, that’s all right,
Adrienne Palmer 05:35
yeah. So it really was more looking cool was the feel of the shirt ever important? I mean, what all goes into it now that you’re on this side of it? Maybe even, does that knowledge help working with your customers, knowing that I played the sport, I know what it feels like and I know what it looks like, yeah,
John LaRoy 05:54
absolutely. I mean, we still play competitive 12 inch softball, so like, now it’s like, yeah, it’s gotta look good, it’s got to feel good, and it’s got to wash good, right? You know, like, I think the rush into Drive fit, you know that you’re almost seeing the market come back a little bit, right? Where, literally, every t shirt people would have, maybe six, seven years ago was 100% poly, every 5k everything. And then, like, you started to see a market correction, like, it’s still very prominent because of sublimation, right? You know, like everyone’s doing all over printing, sublimation, but the feel and the fit of that dry fit fabric is never going to improve beyond what it’s already improved right now, right? Like, it’s all it’s still 100% power. It’s a plastic material. It actually retains bacteria, you know, like even the best antimicrobial stuff that’s out there is still a chemical and spray, and then they start to stank, you know. So you’ve seen, like, more towards blends. You got your higher cotton counts. Sustainability is a big part of it, too. I mean, as much as they say that they’re recycling the plastic, it’s still plastic, you know. And it’s like, what are you putting on your body? 24/7, 365, with all this plastic, there’s something to be said about that. So, long story short, what I’m getting at you’re starting to see, you know, the drivelines were huge, especially in, like, the CrossFit community. And now it’s really kind of exploded, and you got your CVC cottons, and it’s more of that, like, if you blindly, if you took the logo off a shirt or a jersey uniform, whatever, you close your eyes and like, you’re going to pick the one that feels the best, and if it also happens to have, like, a great logo on it. It’s a win, win. So, yeah, I think feel more than anything, especially in sports where it’s on your skin, is more that is, is extremely important, because everything’s going whiter, right? But there’s, there’s, there’s also a dichotomy. There you look at major league baseball, they went super light, and now the uniforms are see through, right? And it’s like the pendulum swung too far. It feels cheap because it is cheap. You know, there’s, there’s also that, that issue of, like the race to the bottom is also you’re going to sacrifice quality. And, you know, Nike got the contract from Major League Baseball, and it’s kind of embarrassing, right? As a decorator myself, who we decorate for on field apparel for collegiate, mostly collegiate sports, and we see our stuff on TV on Saturdays, and it’s like, we’re proud of it. And we see some of the stuff, you know, like that would never pass our quality spec, and it made it on the field of Major League Baseball, and it’s, it’s crazy to see, but we, we know the pain, and we, we also know that it can be better. So
Adrienne Palmer 08:48
yeah, and I guess, you know, I’m not super familiar with baseball, you know, at all, so maybe you can kind of explain that to our listeners that contract, what that kind of looks like. And I guess why you’re thinking it doesn’t look so great when you see it on TV.
John LaRoy 09:02
Yeah. So two things there. So, like, if you’ve ever had an authentic uniform, whether it be football, baseball, basketball, like, and you have a hang in your closet, it’s, if it’s authentic on field, it’s twilled, right? Twilled is at, like, super premium sewn fabric on top of fabric. It does add weight, but it’s like the expectation as a kid or as a fan like you just inherently know that this is the real deal just by seeing it and feeling it because it’s got that super premium look and feel to it well in the effort to drive down cost and also sell function. They’re starting to remove the twill from a lot of the on field, even like the, you know, at the top level. But in doing that, they’ve lost some of that brand recognition and brand promise that you’re getting, you know, because. Like you walk around, you know you’re gonna be in Chicago soon. You walk around any of the stadiums, you’ll be out there, and you can buy and knock off authentic jerseys for like 50 bucks, but they’re still sewn, and they’re still 12 now done overseas. But yeah, the feel, the feel of it, has been enhanced because the lighter weight material, but they’ve had to sacrifice the decoration, because if you have really light garment and you put a heavy twill on it, you’re gonna feel it right. So again, it’s that dichotomy of the ying and yang and at pendulums, I feel like swung too far in terms of function and less about quality, and to bring it back. So if you look at like side by side, and it’s all over the internet, you look at an MLB uniform prior to the Nike contract, and an MLB uniform. Now, first things first, it sticks out. The actual twill of the name is smaller. It used to be a three inch letter with standard on the back of the jersey. Now it’s down to a two. Now that’s it. That’s the cost saving things. But it looks ridiculous, because your eye is accustomed to seeing what a baseball jersey has been for the last essentially, 50 years, right? The material is see through like it’s not good for some of these guys that don’t wear a lot underneath their pants, especially in hot weather, and it’s ripping like I never used to see a major league game where pants would rip like intra game all the time, and it’s happening more than it ever has before, and they’re blaming material. They’re blaming manufacturing. They’re blaming specs. So it’s interesting, it’s happening at the highest level. I
Adrienne Palmer 11:34
joked in a meeting earlier today that I go into more baseball games, I think, than I have in my entire life. I was at a Cardinals game last week, and I’m going to a Cincinnati Reds game tomorrow, so now I’ll just be really paying attention to what they look like on the field, but I’m curious, with all of the n, i L, name, image, likeness, that’s, you know, becoming available to college athletes today. As a former college athlete, what’s your thought on this? Yeah,
John LaRoy 12:05
I mean, it’s a long time coming, you know, being a student athlete, regardless of what level it’s at. I mean, I was just a d3 athlete, but it’s a major time commitment, major time commitment, and you don’t have the time to go get a standard job, you know. I mean, your job is athletics in school, so the opportunity to go out there and actually make some money, because especially at the highest level, you know, the TV deals and coaches. I mean, there’s college coaches making more, way more than NFL coaches. You know, it’s pretty crazy. And they’re only successful based on the success of their talent, but also the student athlete. You know, like the coaches are very important, but they’re nothing without the student athletes. So to be able to share in some of that revenue, I think, is outstanding, because for a lot of people, you know, the vast majority, not a lot. Once college is over, you gotta go get a job, and sometimes, again, that pendulum of dichotomy, it swings so far into athletics, because you think that you’re going to the pros and an injury or talent, whatever happens, happens, and you don’t make it, and you really want to focus on your studies, and you don’t have any real world experience, because essentially, since the time you’ve been five years old, your full time job, especially now, because it’s so specialized, like, literally, 24/7 365, you eat, breathe, eat, eat, breathe, and sleep, sports. So you don’t really have any real world experience. You get out, and it’s going to take you some time to land on your feet, find a position, go back to school, figure out what you want to do, and without any money, it’s really hard to do. So I I’m a wholeheartedly. I support it. The one thing that I’ll say that I don’t like about it is how it’s opened up this even more of a Me, me, me, society, right, where you’re losing the team aspect, you’re losing the loyalty the transfer portal, I think, is destroying college sports, especially like with your big power conferences, you know, it’s it’s pretty much impossible to compete against these big time schools that have these massive budgets, have this massive exposure. Because, like, an N i l deal, for, you know, an average person is is nice, but it’s nowhere compared to the big power schools where, you know, like, here Williams, I think his Nii deal last year was like, $8 million you know, it’s like, it’s insane, how much money these kids are making. And that’s, again, that’s the pendulum swinging too far that way, because not only is their school paid for, so they’re ahead of the curve that way, they’re $8 million I mean, that’s great for them, you know, I’m happy for them. I hope they use that to their advantage. But so many people don’t have that. You know, you think college athletics, and you immediately think that that person went to school for free, and that’s not the case. 90s. So being able to offset the cost of school athletics and have some income, I think, is a great time. Are
Adrienne Palmer 15:07
you working with any college athletes now? Are you in that program?
John LaRoy 15:11
No, no. We haven’t had that as part of our vertical yet, into the company, but that’s something we definitely want to get into. We have a really good pipeline with a lot of athletes just from my coaching career, and we want to do that. We really didn’t have the tools to do that up until about a year ago, when we got into the DTG and DTF game, which
Adrienne Palmer 15:30
is a good transition. I think I talked about enough sports for the day, and we’re going to get into a realm that I just will just be nodding along, because I don’t follow along to sports too much, but I appreciate all of this, and I think it’s, yeah, I think it’s a great opportunity for students and on a great opportunity for the apparel space, because it just keeps it growing and growing. But you brought up DTG and DTF, and so apparel redefined is broken into separate companies to showcase your service offerings. And I was kind of going through your website. You have swift stitch, DECO, forge, pro print, pro print, quick pack, laser, deck transfer, fuse, flex, fast flex, digiprints, banners, I don’t know if I got all those right, but can you explain the breakdown and how they’re expressed to your customers, and kind of, how do you, how do you choose between all of the service offerings?
John LaRoy 16:29
Yeah, so it starts back from the origin story, right? Like we were always a contract decorator. Still are. Our motto is, sell more stress less. We want our clients to be able to do what I do, which is, never say, No, you know, I mean and, and it really got us into trouble in the beginning, but I knew to be the best partner for our clients. When you come to us, you know, in the beginning was like, hey, we’ll do your your screen print. But for embroidery, you gotta go somewhere else. And like, those are the two, you know, bread and butter services. So we got to start offering embroidery. So As years passed and technologies have evolved, we just want to make sure that for our clients, they don’t have to say no, especially in athletics, you know what I mean? Team shops order my gear, Chip leaves. The world. Everyone having their e commerce sites, the dealers and you know, the the people that are facilitating new school these stores were terrified, because they would put out like a seven color sign, and they might only sell one. And what do you do? You refund? Do you, you know, somehow get that made, and then we would come down to us, it’s like, you got five pieces for a four color job, like that’s going to cost you, and we’ll do it. But we just, you know, the this, the situations have evolved and changed, and we’ve been able to add more technology, more offerings, but yeah, it all stems from one and be the best partner for our clients so they can sell more stress less. And we have the tools to say, hey, you know, you we’re not going to give you a screen printer on five pieces, but it’ll be DTF, and it’s gonna be the highest quality possible. So they can, you know, have the offerings for their clients as well. But yeah, so the naming it can confuse people, but internally, you know, we want, we want to be proud of what we do. You know, I think screen printing, embroidery, sewing, for sure. I don’t want to say they’re dying arts, but they’re not recognized. Arts like it’s a serious skill. You think about, we’re talking about football, I promise we’ll talk about Most boards after this. But you know, the Jordan Elite version of Nike jerseys, you know, blank. Those are worth $200 you know. And we got to add seven locations of decoration on that and then get it out, you know. So not only does it an expensive blank, it also takes like, eight to nine weeks to produce overseas and get to us. So you can’t mess it up, because Friday Night Lights is Friday Night Lights, you can’t deliver on Saturday. So there’s a lot of pressure, and there’s a lot of skill involved in every deco type. So we sat down with our department heads, and it’s like, Hey, we’re more than just screen printers. We’re professional screen printers, and we turn into pro print embroidery. Usually when people order embroidery, they the actual mind space of where people are at is like, embroidery is going to be a lot slower. And it’s like, okay, let’s change it around. We’re gonna be gonna be fast, and, you know, we’re gonna be fast, we’re gonna deliver high quality, so swift stitch. So we kind of went through all of our deco types and re rebranded them, mainly internally, because you want to be proud to be part of a team. You know, everyone’s part of apparel redefine, but their first part of that team that they, you know, whatever deco type they’re on. So that’s, that’s kind of the origin story of the different names for the different industry methods of decoration, right? What’s
Adrienne Palmer 19:48
the difference between fuse flex and fast flex?
John LaRoy 19:52
Okay, so fuse Flex is the old school DTF, right? It’s, it’s digital print on a Roland or a. Wide format onto a heat transfer material, right, mainly signage, you know, but we actually started doing after left chests years ago, as the material Lululemon, Nike Under Armor. All the Polo start getting thinner and thinner, and especially, like with the popularity of soccer growing like you get those crests and that would not embroider well on essentially a moisture management T and it might be eight to 12 colors and a ton of detail, and it’s not going to be good for small on screen printing. So we started doing that as fuse flex. Fuse flex has been since retired, and now it’s digiflex, which is now our DT DTF service. And fast Flex is, is laser cut vinyl, or CAD cut vinyl. I’m sorry, so primarily for online store personalization, when a customer wants to add name and number to a T shirt, hoodie, whatever that is, the vinyl that we cut and apply for personalization.
Adrienne Palmer 20:57
Okay, makes sense? Yep, you created your own internal sales management system does. So is there a benefit to having your own system? And I guess we’ll talk a little bit about how this has helped workflow, how you decided to create it internally, and a little bit about the customer experience that comes with this. Sure.
John LaRoy 21:17
So yeah, our software is called nomos. We developed it. We started developing it probably back in 2016 is at the time, there wasn’t really much out there in terms of software for the industry. And as a contract decorator, there was nothing, nothing that we tried that would work. A lot of the stuff that was out there, like early shop works, and that type of stuff was made for, like, someone that, in my opinion, someone that had a shop and was also doing scrape brain in the back. And for us, like the way I kind of aggregate as a contract decorator, we have customers now all over the United States that essentially are trying to send us the same information, but in different formats. And not only is that problematic on the front end, but also on the back end, because we have a very diverse work group from all over the world, and English is not their first language, and being able to convey know the word or the saying a picture is worth 1000 words, to be able to convey that more visually, rather than textually, and assimilate all that information so that no matter where the orders are coming from, our internal work order looks the same every time, no matter what customer is from. So assimilating that data, uniforming it, and then being able to communicate back to our clients. Because in the contract space, two things must happen before an order is produced, and that’s inventory received and artwork approved, right? So there’s a lot of prior to nomos. There was just so much communication, like, literally, for our customer service team, days and days and hours and hours, and really, all they were doing was just responding to emails for information that was like, should be real time and like, again. I always say, like, what I really want to do is reinvent an archaic industry or bring some technology, because we’re just getting on board. Like, when I talk to my dad, who’s in corporate sales for 35 years, 40 years, and, you know, working with the big boys, Javas, off sun, Microsystems, Oracle, and it’s like, Wait, you guys don’t have that yet, you know? And it’s like, no, you know. Like SNS, sammar Broder, like, they just are releasing APIs and start talking to systems and having some integrations. So I just knew, like, in order to scale to the level that we want to be, and the company we we aspire to be and lead the the nation, uh, country, in athletic apparel decoration that we’re going to have do something different. And I can’t wait for it. So we decided to start developing on our own. And, yeah, from a client experience, you know, just communicating essential order, critical points, inventory, received, artwork, approved order, complete. Communicating turn times, because with all those deco types that we have, you can’t just say our blanket turn times five days. That’s it’s not true. It’s different in embroidery. It’s different in screen prints, different in DTG. So we actually, you know, we break down turn times by all deco type, and then we have automations in there that when you know, during certain times of the year, when our cycles get busier and heavier, we extend those automatically, and then it sets actual due dates based on our internal turn time. So we’re telling the customer when we promise to get it done, rather than kind of like the old school way that we did for 13 years was like someone said, Hey, can you do it? Like yeah, and just not really knowing what that meant, but just saying yes. You know, it’s like no other real business works that way, but it’s very prevalent in screen printing when you just say yes to everything and not really know what that means. So, yeah, we’ve built in a lot of logic. You know, we have our capacities and our systems now telling us, like, when we can get. Stuff done based on current production levels, we have to bring up, you know, more capacity through overtime, adding more people. So, yeah, it’s been, it’s been very instrumental in our growth. And there’s the nice thing about having it to ourselves, is we get a lot of client feedback because they’re on it, they’re using it, they’re interacting and they say, Hey, be really nice to do this. And it’s not like I have to go through something else and say, Hey, can you do this? No, it’s our software. Yeah, we’ll get it done. Now, the development spend is, is absolutely significant, but again, it’s, it’s an essential part of our business now that has really got us to where we are.
Adrienne Palmer 25:36
Hey, I was, I’m glad you mentioned the customer experience and the customer review section of that, because obviously it’s such a benefit internally into your processes, but to be able to hear directly from the customer, this is working, this isn’t working, that’s paramount. Yeah, yeah. So on your site, you mentioned it’s not just about what we can do, but how we can do it better. So are you using any types of lean manufacturing or production processes for efficiency? Absolutely.
John LaRoy 26:05
Yeah, yeah. We, we coined that phrase probably six, seven years ago, and it’s like everyone wants to focus on being the biggest, and for us, it was a focus on being the best, and then size will come after that. But it’s great to talk about it, but what actually do do about it? So five years ago, we won a grant from Cook County in the state of Illinois, and we really started focusing on our leadership skills, because at that point, we had Eclipse, I think, like 4040, or 45 employees and on my leadership team, which are seven, seven amazing individuals that have really propelled our growth more than I have ever done. We can’t really just say, like, Hey, we’ve never done this before. I’ve never been in charge of a team of 40. I’ve never been in charge of a team of 10. So we had to level up our leadership and communication skills. So we did, like, a year long, like kind of custom MBA program where we focused on communication and we focused on performance evaluations. We formed, it focused on recruiting, so your job descriptions, getting everything, like, kind of buttoned up to scale. And was professionally led by, you know, an HR professional. Now, we had, like, OSHA training, we had all this type of stuff that was great for us. And then, you know, we had, we took that. It was like drinking out of a fire hose for like, a year, right? So I’m like, let’s put it in a practice, because you could just sit there and, like, back when you’re at school, like, you hear things and do you really absorb them? Can you put them in a practice? You know, can touch it, feel it, and start working on it? That’s when things start happening. So we took some time off in terms of, like, professional development, and we got into, like, one of my personal heroes, Jocko willing, and we started doing his like, discipline equals freedom, and doing more leadership, uh, leadership based stuff for our for our team. And then about a year ago, I’m like, listen, I think, before we move into our new facility, are we maximizing our space and our capacity here? So let’s start talking about Lean. And I actually read a book that was all about lean manufacturing, and it was actually given to me by one of my production managers. Like, I think you’d like this. I read it. I’m like, it’s probably the biggest mistake you ever did, because I’m gonna hire a lean process consultant, and we thought was gonna be, like, a three month engagement. He ended up being here for almost a little over a year. And for me, like, one of my biggest bottlenecks in the Lean world was our inventory receipt. You know, we’ll get six, 700 boxes a day. And the way I try and tell people about it when we’re hiring is, like, if you like jigsaw puzzles, then you’re gonna like this. Because essentially, when that truck or trucks back up and they dump off the boxes. It’s like a jigsaw puzzle, but not having the picture of like this is what it looks like, you know? And you got to put this piece in this box, this order, and go find existing orders, and these are the replacements coming in. So it is difficult, and that’s where nomos really shines. But it’s such a labor intensive, long process. And there was things that I’m like, we need another set of eyes in here, because we can continue to tell our customers to sell and sell and sell, but we got to be able to deliver speed, right? Because, you know, you talk about three things in a service industry, it’s speed, it’s quality and it’s price, right? It’s it’s very rare and very hard to deliver all three. So we focus on speed and quality. In order to do that, we’re like, we need to get better our inventory process. So we fixed that bottleneck, technology, roller systems, all types of things that like weren’t in red, reinventing the wheel, but just having an outside, outside set of eyes, measuring steps, all that type of stuff to bring innovation to our inventory team. And then what happens when you start doing Lean is like you just keep pushing that bottleneck down the row right? So then it goes into staging, then it goes into screens, and it goes actually on a production floor that goes into embroidery and everything. So we kind of flushed through the entire process and just kept finding inefficiencies. Yes, but really what Lean is, and what we’ve learned from the leadership team is a mindset, right? And how do you continually improve the CIP continual improvement processes and getting everyone on the floor to continually look for ways to make their job, their process everything better. And it takes a long time, right? Because anytime you introduce change, as you know, it’s just it’s hard for people to digest. You know, it’s the first emotion is anger and frustration, like, why we’ve been doing this for 13 years? And then with anger comes resistance, and then the resistance comes either a breakthrough or sometimes you might have to replace that person, you know, if you’re not willing to change, because where we are today is because of the systems and processes we have. If we want to get here, we have to do something different, right? So, yeah, you know, our leaders did a really good job, you know, having some of those tough conversations, but then also getting the feedback. Because when you implement a new process. It’s not the best process, right off the bat, especially when you bring someone in that isn’t unique to the apparel decoration industry. There’s some things that didn’t make sense, but we’re like, let’s try it. Let’s prove that it doesn’t make sense before we scratch it and try again. So yeah, it was a ton of testing, ton of data collection, but all you know, really good stuff, and, like, foundational it’s not the end, it’s just more of the beginning and getting the tools to continue to do this on our own as we continue to mature as a company, right?
Adrienne Palmer 31:32
And you mentioned a good point, you know, it is very intensive. You thought this person was going to come in for a couple months. They stay in a year. We see this too with sustainability programs like the like SGP, sustainable green printing partnership. You know, that’s a year long process. This isn’t just something that you can try and figure out within a couple months, or really try and figure out yourself, like you really need someone to come in and and walk you through it. Is it best if you can have someone who has an apparel background, yeah. But is that always possible? No. So a lot of trial and error figuring things out, and then also actually working with your production manager, actually working with people who are on the floor, so that they can say, like, this is what we’re doing every day, and this is what’s going to make it better. And then they also feel like they have a voice in the company. There’s just so many different benefits, but so many different steps. And there was a speaker at print hustlers conference two years ago who spoke on lean manufacturing, and I was just taking down so many notes, just personally, you know, put a little.on one side of a USB drive. So when you were doing, like, there it goes in. No, that’s wrong. No, that’s wrong. It’s like, just have the dots so you put it in the right time, or the way that you load your dishwasher. Now, I’m probably not following the dishwasher rules anymore, you know, just like, there’s so many things that you can do to have in a more efficient life and business. So yeah, I’m just kudos to you for implementing that, and I’m I’m sure that your your employees, are thrilled to have a better way to work.
John LaRoy 33:11
Yeah, I mean, one of the big things right off the bat is, like, our inventory team members, and they were a little upset, because we were actually doing a biggest loser competition at the time, but they were tracking, like, four and a half miles a day, just from back and forth, from the trucks and the inventory lines, and then stacking and moving. So, like, it’s like, how do you expect to get more boxes counted per day, or garments with all this walking? So, like, just, just physically, like, moving things around. We didn’t have to knock down walls or do anything, but just, just get the product to the person quicker and more efficient. Was like, Oh my God. Like, you know, we did all like the spaghetti charts and the walk, yeah, it was, it was crazy. Yeah,
Adrienne Palmer 33:52
yeah. If this person needs scissors 27 times a day, and the scissors are 27 steps away, you know, how much is that adding to their their time and their energy and, yeah, bummer on the the steps, because, you know, four and a half miles, that’s really gonna, yeah, be healthier. But, you know, there are other benefits too. Yeah, it’s,
John LaRoy 34:16
it’s, it’s really important, you know, talking about working on the business, working in the business, you know, apparel, decoration, especially, you know, more on a contract side, just because they’re not your deadlines, they’re everyone else’s. So, you know, inherently, I think, as humans, you’re always trying to please people. And like, you have literally 1000s of people you’re trying to please, and those are just the middlemen, and like, the end customers, like, you know, exponentially bigger. So what I’m getting at is like, you’re always trying to put others before yourself, and you get caught in the minutia of the daily grind, and it’s like, hey, we’ll get to it tomorrow, because we have all these deadlines we gotta hit today. And like, we’ll work on the business tomorrow. And honestly, that’s how it was for God. I. It’s 15 out of 18 years. Like, really, in the last three to four years, myself and our leaders at, you know, like, take a step back, and it’s like, okay, like the production is important, but so is three years around. So is five years around. So it’s 10 years from now, and where do we collectively want to go? And how are we going to get there? Because heads down, you know, we’re not going to get there. We have to take our heads up, look around, evaluate, assess, test, react, and keep on doing that process right. But I
Adrienne Palmer 35:31
keep bringing up things that I’ve seen on your site, but specifically, there are two videos and that you shared them with me, and I noticed they’re on your site too, and they’re sharing your services. They’re sharing your story. And so I do want to ask, you know, the back like, why did you decide to create these videos? How have they turned your business around? And then there’s one thing in the video that I wanted to talk about, so I don’t want to forget that. But in terms of creating these videos, you know, how has that benefited your customer experience and knowledge and just kind of word of mouth? Yeah,
John LaRoy 36:07
it’s been more of a mental thing for myself. For me, I don’t like, I don’t like the part of the industry that is really going this way, where it’s like, I’m just staying about my son, right? He went to preschool every day, and his show and tell day. And for me, it’s like, I don’t want to talk about what I have if I’m not comfortable about, you know, what I’ve done, and it’s always been in my head, where it’s like, I can get better, I can get better and get better, and I don’t want to talk about it until we do, right? You know, I don’t want to tell before the show, essentially, like, I want to be comfortable in the show before I talk about it. And I was in my head, and I met, you know, someone else from the industry, and they came here, and they’re like, Oh my God. Like, why? Why are you? You’re always going to feel that you can be better, but you need to start talking about this stuff me more comfortable, because the biggest fear of for me is like being hypocrite. I don’t want to be the person that does the talking and has nothing to back it up, because I’ve seen that, not just in our industry. And you know, with how easy it is to do this now on your phone, put out on social media, people can live a lie, and I don’t like that, so getting out of my own head, because not only from a customer standpoint, but from an internal customer, our employees, you know, we want to project the company that we are and that we will be. And, you know, I think everyone that’s probably hopefully gonna listen to this podcast can understand and appreciate how hard it is to find really good people to work in a company, and it’s a very labor intensive industry. You need people to get stuff done, even with all the innovations that come in the last four or five years, you’re totally reliant on good people. And how can we attract and retain better people, if I’m not talking about the company? Because really, for 16 or last 18 years, we’ve existed in the shadows, and mainly that’s your job as a contract decorator. You know, like, your clients really don’t want other people to know about you, because they’re where it’ll impact your turn times. So, yeah, we’re like, hey, let’s come out of the dark ages. Kind of, hey, this is what we’re gonna do. We’ve never marketed, you know, we just started, like, doing some a little bit of marketing, actually, about two months ago. So yeah, it’s more of, let’s, let’s do something different, because what we were doing before put a lid, you know, personally, on our development and also on the company, you know, and for me, success. For me is a success, not only for our clients, but more importantly, for our team members, right? Like, it’s so rewarding to see. You know, some of my people have been with me 1718, years. You know, Nick’s been with me the entire time. Phenomenal. Everyone on the leadership team has been with me for over seven years. And collective success. There’s no greater, you know, feeling of that, like, again, coming from sports like winning a conference, winning a championship, even at the coaching level, and that’s where I feel like, you know, seeing all of this success and the ups and the downs, and there’s tons of downs, but getting through it together is so rewarding. So yeah, I kind of forgot what, what the original question was. Well,
Adrienne Palmer 39:22
I think the statement is there’s no I in team, right? Yeah, for sure, like that in grade school. But no, I mean, you were kind of talking about how you know you don’t want to be living a lie or hypocritical. But the thing that I wanted to bring up in one of the videos is I saw a banner hanging in your space that said entrepreneur named you best company in 2019 so one, congratulations, thank you. And two, there’s obviously, you know, a reason for that, and I think it’s everything that we’ve talked about so far, but maybe you can expand on on that award. Yeah, it was
John LaRoy 39:53
really cool. My cousin owns a business in Indianapolis, and he had won, I think, the year before, and I was just. Kind of like, Dude, it’s awesome. Like, what did you do? So he kind of walked me through the process, and then the e3 60 award team contacted our team and did surveys and did all this. And, yeah, it was, it was, like a six month process, but it was definitely awesome and cool, and to get that recognition, because, like, obviously, as the owner, you feel that, you believe that, but giving some validation is a really great feeling, you know? So it’s, it was cool, and it’s, it’s definitely nice to have a hang in our in our showroom. And, yeah, but I think one of the other things I want to touch on from your previous question about the move to video as well. So again, the generation like you can either complain about it, or you can accept it, right? And I even find myself like, you know, you get a kid’s toys, you get a desk, or you get something. It’s like you look at a booklet of directions, and it’s like I could just go to YouTube and I can find something and watch a video. Because I think most people, more than not, are visual learners, compared to, you know, reading and writing, because I think those skills are lacking in America right now. But everyone knows how to watch a video, and I feel like we redid our entire internal onboarding. We made it all video. Because, again, like as the company grows, there’s less interaction that myself will have with everyone on the floor. It’s kind of one of the, you know, again, the dichotomy of things. I hate to keep going back to it, but like, I don’t have the time to spend with everyone like I did when we had 10 employees, even 20 employees, even 30, and it’s just getting different now. So how do you communicate that to the person coming in that doesn’t know where we came from and doesn’t know where we’re going and doesn’t know what our core values are, or mission statement, that type of stuff. So it’s like, let’s get into video and have everyone go through the same process, because that’s the other thing, and screen printing and embroidery and contract decorating. Most of the times when you hire, you’re hiring out of panic, like, oh my god, we have all these orders. How do you get done? And the person comes in and they hit the floor, and it’s just a fire drill from day one, and that’s how we operated for a long time. And like, we need to change that. So getting into video, getting comfortable in front of video, was something I just had to overcome and embrace, because it’s not going anywhere. And I do feel like it’s very important. So I said, again, I’m on damn Ed,
Adrienne Palmer 42:14
right. Yeah, that’s it’s interesting that you bring I’m a visual learner as well. I was putting together this lamp behind me the other day, and it’s like, I’m reading the instruction, and it’s just like debris to me. I’m just like, show me the, you know, the illustration, or whatever. I can figure it out from there. But I had an interesting conversation a couple weeks ago with a print shop owner and then a manufacturer in this space, and we were talking about Lean and the benefits of using video. So if one of your staff members is new or forgets or whatever, they can scan a QR code on their phone and watch a video on how it stops. Yeah, so awesome. But on the other end, the manufacturer said they’re not allowed to have phones on the floor, so it was an interesting conversation to see, you know, how can you use that? Do you do you have iPads where they can click, you know, and watch that? But I think the the basis of that is there’s a way to show people how it’s done, whether they are new, they don’t remember they needed a refresher, and to use video for that just seems like a no brainer. Yeah, for sure.
John LaRoy 43:19
Yeah. And the cell phone policy, like, we’ve waffled on that over 18 years, but the way I operate is like, day one, I don’t care if I know you or not. You get full trust, and it’s up to you to break it or strengthen it, you know what I mean? So we just say you abuse it, you’re gonna lose it, type thing. And it does happen, you know. And unfortunately, when it does happen, we have to, we have to, you know, write up and do all that unfunded stuff, but necessary. But yeah, it’s especially now with, with how fast life is. And, you know, I would hate to say someone’s on my floor and they need to get a call from their wife or their kids sick or this or that, so it’s like, I’m not going to be that person. And just if I’m treating you with that respect, I just expect the same back. And for the most part, it’s worked very well that way. Yeah,
Adrienne Palmer 44:13
I was having a similar conversation about that in terms of unlimited PTO and of how some people it’s like the taking advantage of a situation. It’s like, let’s have trust and respect that you’re not going to take advantage of the situation, but just know that if you do, maybe it is an unlimited PTO, or maybe, in this instance, you can’t have your phone on the floor anymore. Sure.
44:35
Yeah, okay,
Adrienne Palmer 44:36
let’s talk DTF. Okay, this year you add a DTF in house. So can you tell me about this journey? What led you to bringing it in house? What it’s like? You know, what it’s been like so far?
John LaRoy 44:50
Yeah. So the journey started about three years ago, probably two kind of coinciding with the end of our DTG journey and the beginning of the. DTF. So they’re very similar in what we did, we visited or tested all the manufacturers in DTG, same with DTF, essentially, because we’re screen print snobs, and for me to put our company’s name behind a product service experience, it’s got to be top notch. And what we experienced like in the infancy of DTF and DTG was not good, the feel was bad, the durability was horrible. And it’s a new technology, and that’s to be expected. So we did a lot of testing, a lot of wash testing, but then also, you know, being a contract shop productions key, you know it if it looks good and it feels good, but it takes a minute and a half to press, you’re not going to get much done, right? So the also relationship with the manufacturer, it’s not if it breaks, it’s when it breaks. Are you going to have confidence and consistency of supply in such a new, literally, wild west of industry, and then you just got to hear all the noise. You know, it’s the same noise that you heard 10 years ago when DTG came in. This is going to replace screen print. Now you’re hearing even again, and more and louder that DTF is going to replace screen print. And it’s not, you know, it has its purpose, and it’s very good, and it’s very agile in terms of all the different materials that can go on, not like DTG, but there’s still limitations, and it’s getting better, and it will continue to improve. But yeah, we, we weren’t just going to settle on, you know, the lowest price or the mid ground. We just, we needed it to meet, not just my expectations, because I have people on my team that are even more quality stringent than than I am, and if it didn’t meet, like Derek’s expectations, or Nick’s or Jamie’s, like it wasn’t going to fly. But as it started getting better, and we started having more talks, and we started talking to the ink manufacturer, manufacturers and who they’re recommending, and this, this and that, and we invited people in. And then just more kind of downward pressure from not the end user, because the end user really doesn’t if it’s done well, they shouldn’t know. Now, just your job, I think, as a decorator and a salesperson, to communicate to them that this is not screen print. You’re not selling them a screen print, because I think that’s just ingenuous, but more of the middle person, the dealers and those type of people, where it’s like, hey, I want to be able to sell a team shop, 24/7, 365, I want no minimums. I want full color. And you’re starting to get that pressure. So like, Okay, we gotta react, but we’re not gonna react with just whatever. So, yeah, I hope to answer your question, yeah,
Adrienne Palmer 47:49
of course, yeah, you kind of you’re bringing up a lot of good points the wild west of printing. I mean, it’s also new, trying to figure out. I mean, three years may seem like a long time of you figuring that out, but it’s not because it’s so new. But I am curious with your experience with digital printing for vinyl signs and canvas prints, has this helped you on the technical side at all with bringing DTF in house, just because there is that digital component
John LaRoy 48:20
it has. But again, you know, introducing adhesive to the system that’s not, you know, that’s not done with sides and batters and that type of stuff. And the other thing with signs and banners and that, that digital space, color consistency isn’t as important as apparel. That sign and Banner, you’re probably not making 500 of them, you know, and then everyone’s going to be standing side by side where, you know, holding a banner. That’s not, that’s not normal. So it was, you know, you could do the color matching within a certain gamut and get that, but it really, it wasn’t as important as it is now for apparel. And then repeatability, you know, like a sign goes outside, it’s expected to lose some of this color saturation over two or three years or whatever, and and you get a new sign. But apparel is a whole different ballgame, and you’re adding another component of adhesive pressing. You’re not pressing a sign, you know. So, yeah, there’s, there’s similarities. It’s a good foundation, but it’s definitely not the whole course, right? Yeah.
Adrienne Palmer 49:35
And so you have two machines now, is that correct? And how long you had them running? Second
John LaRoy 49:41
machine just arrived, and the first machine we’ve had since late January, early February.
Adrienne Palmer 49:50
So so far, how are you thinking major challenges, major benefits.
John LaRoy 49:55
Yeah, it’s awesome. I mean, again, I don’t think I. Try to stay pre even keeled as I age, where people like overreact, this is the best thing in the world, or is the worst thing in the world. It’s probably somewhere in the middle. Like I said, it has a space, you know, in terms of you starting to see like decorating for athletics, the majority of our orders are anywhere from like 24 to 72 pieces somewhere in there, because you’re tied to the size of the team sport. So a lot of that stuff under 50 pieces. We’re moving to DTG, with the customer’s approval. I’m sorry. DTF, with the customer’s approval. What we do notice, because we have, we have press times under five seconds. We can do that on a multitude of different garment types and fabrics. I still think the feel of like a full front on a blend or cotton T doesn’t feel as nice as, you know, a DTG or a screen print left chest, especially on polos, like soccer style logos, it’s phenomenal. And actually, on 100% poly I feel like the feel is even better than a screen print, because it’s like plastic on plastic, and it just kind of like rolls under your fingers, and it feels really good. Some of the challenges, like this industry is in for it. It’s in for it, because color is like Space Frontier. It’s even way crazier than the Wild Wild West, right? Because there are so many different components to getting that color right. Like, I think a lot of people, you know, they see the DTF game, like, Oh my God, because, like, the cricket came first, right? And for like, whatever, a couple grand or even less, you could start making T shirts. Now DTF comes in, and at printing united, we’re at in Atlanta. God, there had to be 50 different vendors selling DTF equipment, right? And wild ranges of prices, like I saw, as well as, like, 12 grand all the way up to 50 to 60, and depending on the size of the machine over on our grant, so there’s a vast array of opportunity. But again, one of the things in this industry, it kind of upsets me, but it’s also the reason I got in, is there’s really low barriers to entry, right? And how do you separate yourself from, essentially, the competition? Or, you know, even, even as a company like, how to get to that next level when the barriers to entry are so low. And this kind of, for a while, the barriers to entry were starting to climb up, and it was a little bit harder to get in. But now that completely reset the clock, and now you can get in for 13 grand and start making T shirts, essentially full color. Where before it was like, Yeah, you could do on DTG tabletop, you could probably do, like, maybe just white shirts, or maybe just, you know, some blends, and you were limited in your scope of what you could actually offer. Now DTG completely changes our DTF completely changes that. But are people really aware of humidity, temperature, digital maintenance. I mean, you know, we have a maintenance team, essentially, that’s doing our DTG and DTS, and like, you could have variants in the color intraday and with on the same, you know, the same profiles from the RIP. But machine to machine, even if they’re in the same room with the same climate, temperatures. You could have variants in color. And why that’s important is especially for athletic clients, right? You know that coach has been coaching high school baseball, high school basketball for 20 years, whatever they’ve been used to that orange or that red or that gold, and they don’t know or care how it’s getting done, but it shows up to them on their hoodie or on their T shirt or on their jersey, and it’s been the same goal since they’ve been a customer or whatever company they’re buying from, and then all of a sudden it comes, and it’s not the same goal, and it’s not the same large because it’s done by someone that didn’t do it that was close to the region as using DTF, and it’s a problem, and, what’s much different in the analog world of screen print, when you get your PMS value and you look and it’s this percentage of red and this percentage of yellow and this and that, and you can actually mix it. It’s theoretical in the digital world. And, like, that’s a starting point. It’s not an end point. And you have to, like, kind of figure it out. And even when you do figure it out, if you change the film, if you change your adhesive, if you change your temperature settings, it all your color profiling has to be redone. So it’s it’s like a very quick, very flexible solution, but in terms of, like, proper execution. It’s very time consuming, and it’s a lot it’s a lot harder than people think. Again, it’s not the silver bullet for everything, but it is really the technology, and we’re in this infancy stages, right? It’s going to get better, but you really need to focus on it and work on it. Yeah,
Adrienne Palmer 54:58
it’s definitely. Not just a turnkey solution. And so many people ask, you know, well, I’m buying X amount of transfers. Does that mean I should bring DTF in house? And it’s like, that’s not the only question you should be asking yourself. There’s a lot that goes into it, especially on the maintenance and the environment, that I think people are maybe not considering as much, because there are a lot of small business owners who are having DTF equipment in their own home, in their basement, in their living room. So it is possible to do this on a very small scale, but you mentioned so many different things, humidity. I mean, there’s, there’s a lot that goes into it that people need to consider. So I guess that would be, you know, my next question, you know, what are your tips for others? You know, who are considering entering this space? It took you three years to get to where you are now? Yeah, I
John LaRoy 55:50
would, I would challenge people to consider, first, like your your market, what’s important to them because of its color, and you have repeat customers expecting that same color. You really want to pick someone that they’re going to control the variables for you, or at least notify you. I’ve heard horror stories from, you know, friendly competitors in the industry. They have 1214, DTF machines, and their supplier changed their film, and they didn’t tell them, and it’s not ever going to come back to the original film that they have, and now they have this new film, and they spent weeks dialing in hundreds of colors for athletic clients, and it was all gone. And they didn’t really realize it until they started sending out orders and the customers like, hey, this gold is not the same goal, you know, because like, you’re, you have a team running and cutting and pressing, and it’s just like, get in, get in, get it out, get it out. And then all of a sudden it’s like, oh my God, these are all off, and they’re rifling through, is it? Is it the RIP? Is it this? Is it that is our heads? Are they not good? And then all of a sudden it’s like, no, the film change. And it changed everything. So if what I’m getting at is if your client is very or your client base a repeat customers, like schools and they have very specific color sets, make sure you know what you’re doing and make sure you have a good supplier and partner. It’s not just a supplier’s partner that’s going to help you go through all the color matching that’s going to be 100% necessary, and then communication, because, again, none of this stuff is really made here, unfortunately. And when you are sourcing overseas, you’re you get price, but you don’t get quality all the time. And that could change in an instant, and that’s going to really affect things. Another tip is do is, is understand what’s important for you. If you don’t need to do or apply, you know, 1000s of transfers a day, then you probably don’t have to pay for something that’s going to be able to press in three seconds. If you’re only going to be doing, you know, couple 100, maybe you’re at the point where maybe you don’t need a machine, because these machines need to run. Need run every day for long periods, otherwise you’re gonna dry out your heads and your machine becomes useless, and we’ll see it on Facebook marketplace like we see. We used to see all those, those tabletop dtgs, but yeah, just make sure that it’s running. You have really good support from your partners, and that you have people that are dedicated and understand that there is a maintenance component. It’s not screen print where you’re done with a job. Shut the lights off, turn off the dryer, turn off the flashes and go home. There’s more to it, especially if you want to get you know return on investment, on your on your investment, and that’s essentially what it is. And understand too, I think, like you even see it from the suppliers. Like everyone, I’m sure on this podcast have heard of this company as starts in s ends and alls, and before we got our DTF machine that was delayed multiple, multiple months, we had started offering DTF as a service. We were ordering from them, and during this color navigation and process that we’re doing, we couldn’t hit a certain color here for a while. So we’re like, hey, we’ll just order it from from them, because that’s who we did this order from, big disclaimer on the website. Now we cannot guarantee colors that were ordered previous. You know, even if you submit a PMS color, you submit a hex color, RGB, you see them like it, whatever it is, they’re not guaranteeing, you know. So it’s like, you know, that’s, that’s not good. And it just, it just shows that that is a major challenge in this industry right
Adrienne Palmer 59:37
now. What you said about finding a partner, you said vendor, and then actually partner. I think that is so important too. We actually have an article on dtfprinting.com about what to look for when finding a vendor. And I think that it’s just it’s so much more than the right printer. It’s that customer service. Are they going to be helping you with education? Education? Your customers, it’s really important to find a vendor that connects well with you and that you can trust and have that back and forth with, especially if something goes down, because I was a big issue, you know, three four years ago, when everything was overseas and that communication was just kind of impossible, or in the middle of the night or something like that. So now having people that you can trust and work with is so important. And you know, there’s a lot of conversations happening on the Facebook groups and kind of people, you know, pushing their own agendas, things like that, you know. So make sure that when you’re searching for a printer, you’re really focusing in on that customer service and that trust, which I’m sure you found, you know, over the last six months, seven months, sure,
John LaRoy 1:00:46
another thing to consider too, and that’s not unique to digital, but very unique to analog, is there’s a third party involved that no one knows about, and that’s the RIP, so making Sure your partner has a good relationship with the RIP, you know, because that’s something that it’s unbelievably important and unbelievable, unbelievably, like mystifying to a person like me where it’s like, this is a PMS color. Why can’t it printed this color? And how that RIP software integrates with your graphic software, and then also with the output is extremely important. And you know, there’s, there’s industry leading rips out there that, you know, have a full staff, and they have, you know, support, and they’re working with these partners that are selling DTF, but that’s a huge component of it, is that the average, you know, distributor has no idea about because it’s, it’s, it’s very, very technical. Yeah, yeah,
Adrienne Palmer 1:01:46
that’s a really good point. And then on your site, I would just have a question. I’m noticing digital fusion and thermal digital printing, and I’m seeing that when it’s connected to a heat transfer. Are you using those that terminology, or you using term DTF with your customers, or did they not have a clue what any of this means? Yeah,
John LaRoy 1:02:04
again, like, when you’re heads down and you think this sounds like a good idea, and now that we’ve been doing more outreach and people are starting to get confused, we’re learning that, hey, we just got to maybe not reinvent the wheel and just, you know, or just put digital fusion is DTF, because, like, technically, back before DTF, we had, like, you said, fast flex, fuse, flex. And then digital fusion was actually a different process, because it was a different film that we used that would adhere to, like, swimwear, nylon garments, unless it was like, it wasn’t technically the same as you are too, but I think we got too, too specific and probably too vague for the average middle, you know, dealer to understand. So yeah, that’s thanks for pointing it out. We got to change that,
Adrienne Palmer 1:02:54
because some people are like, we’re not using like, I was with Epson this past weekend, and they’re like, we’re calling it DT film. They’re not saying DTF. So I was just curious, like, Is there gonna be another phrase that’s happening in the industry? But I am curious overall, you know, do your customers care what process of print there that you’re using? Do they have a say in this, or is it completely up to you and your team? No, they
John LaRoy 1:03:23
have to say. And really, like when, from a contract side, each customer is uniquely different. Even within, like a certain company, a company has 1200 reps or 10 reps, each one of those reps has a different preference. You know, some I don’t care. I don’t care what you do. Get it done fast. So it’s like other people, like, no, no, absolutely not. My my coach, or my company has always had screen print or embroidery, do not change it. So really, it’s just that communication with our customer always the salesperson, and that we’re trusting that that salesperson is having communication with their end user as well. But, yeah, we, I mean, if we get we’re telling our customers, you know, if it’s under six pieces, we’re going to default, or under 12 to DTF, unless you tell us not to, and we’ve been doing it now for about 434, months, and we haven’t had an issue. That’s
Adrienne Palmer 1:04:24
cool. Well, do you have any other thoughts on DTF printing now that you have it in house, I’m excited
John LaRoy 1:04:30
for the future. You know, everything gets better. Like I said, DTG screen print, you know, just in our screen room, like there’s been so much advancement and screen in the pre press room in the past five years, going from like old school cutting rubylith Way back in the day, when I started to film, then to wax, I’m sorry, not to the eye image, then to wax, and now to laser. It’s It’s amazing. And I. So I came in, like, late to the pre press game, but like, I feel like we’re on the forefront of the DTG and DTF game. And then, like, reintroducing new adhesives to get a better feel we’re working with, you know, our partner on that, on the output side, you know, the innovation that’s coming there from once that roll comes off, what do you do to quickly get that chopped up and processed and staged to your garments to the pressing side? You know, you’re seeing every manufacturer come out now with like, Rotary heat presses similar to, you know, old school manual print carousels. So yeah, I’m excited to see how the innovation continues to push forward from all different parties. I’m also, I want to say, anxiously awaiting, but I do think, like I would say, it’s going to take 18 months or so to have a market correction in terms of DTF is just flooding, flooding the space right now, right? And you’re going to see, you’re gonna see issues with adhesion. You’re gonna see issues with colors. You’re gonna see issues with durability, wash fastness. Because, again, there’s so many players in the market right now, not all of them are guaranteeing quality. So you’re gonna see it like, Hey, I don’t you’re gonna have certain clients that like, hey, whatever you gave me, I don’t ever want to see again. It fell off. The colors were crap. It didn’t feel good. Give me a screen print. So, like, right now, screen printers are probably a little panicky or nervous, where it’s like, oh my god, everyone and their brother can do what I do without any skill in terms of, you know, pressure, consistency, screen creation, all that type of stuff. But it will come back. Not as much, but it will come back, I think, in about 18 months, when all these early adopters are kind of pushed out of the market, I guess,
Adrienne Palmer 1:06:50
okay, well, thank you, John, I learned a ton. Thanks really, not only for sharing your DTF journey, but sharing the business side, the production side, I think that can sometimes get lost in these conversations. And I think for the apparel industry as a whole, you know, business 101, should be, you know, just taught. And so it’s really interesting to learn all the different facets of what goes on at apparel redefined
John LaRoy 1:07:18
Awesome. Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity. It was great talking to and I really enjoyed this great
Adrienne Palmer 1:07:22
All right. Well, you can find apparel redefined@apparelredefined.com and at apparel redefined on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. We’ll catch you on the next episode of The DTF printing podcast. In the meantime, head to dtfprinting.com to discover new ways to grow your DTF print business. Thanks for listening. Bye.