John LaRoy, CEO of Apparel Redefined, discusses the benefits of just-in-time apparel production, including reduced inventory costs, improved cash flow, and enhanced customization capabilities. He emphasizes the importance of integrating front-end and back-end processes, partnering with reliable manufacturers, and embracing technology to streamline supply chains and improve production times.

LaRoy highlights the value of seamless interaction, convenience, and control over the process. Limitations of traditional inventory management and the importance of building customer reputation through trust and sustainability are key factors. Finally, he discusses the advantages of just-in-time inventory control for cash flow and sustainability, and how it can be a competitive advantage.

Key Highlights

• Just-in-time printing and its benefits for apparel production, including reduced inventory costs and faster delivery times. 0:02
• Streamlining apparel production and marketing for businesses. 4:17
• Streamlining apparel production and delivery for businesses. 8:32
• Technology and transparency in the print-on-demand industry. 13:05
• Just-in-time inventory control and sustainability in the printing industry. 17:38
• Inventory control and customization in the apparel industry. 21:18
• Apparel industry trends, including print on demand, sustainability, and customer transparency. 26:58

Presentation Transcription

Curt Anderson  00:02

Well, hello there. Thank you for joining us. Once again, I’m here with my dear friend, the CEO, President of Apparel Redefined John LaRoy, John, how are you my friend?

John LaRoy  00:11

I’m doing well, Curt, great to be back.

Curt Anderson  00:14

Hey, this is awesome. We have another great topic, wonderful conversation that we’re gonna dive into. And you know, we’re both logistics guys. And we love you know, I’m gonna go a little bit old school. I’m older than you. I’m Guy from the, you know, college in the 80s. And Justin time was a real popular, you know, I was a logistics major. And that’s all we talked about was just in time. And really, it’s still incredibly prevalent today. So we want to talk just in time, and apparel redefined? Let’s dive dive in. What exactly is just in time branded apparel? And how does it differ from say, traditional approaches with apparel production in branded?

John LaRoy  00:51

Sure. So just in time is not, you know, like I said, it’s not a new concept. But the new spin on Justin time is print on demand, right? It’s been around for probably seven to 10 years, in terms of the technology has been available. But you know, with COVID, and what we went through, you know, it just accelerated what was already happening, you know, the the explosion of eComm that happened during COVID, it was probably it was going to happen in 10 years, but instead of a hat taking 10, it took three. So the print on demand, the just in time printing, uses more digital where for 60 years, the screen printing world really hasn’t changed and very, you know, an analog in in the interface, essentially, and the execution of the product. And where that that comes to is problems in predicting and forecasting, because it’s not just a single product, right, you have to predict and forecast small, medium, large, extra large colors, design content, execution, delivery speed. And again, the Amazon effect has completely changed the marketplace. Because, you know, I would say the vast majority of Amazon product is not customized, it’s a product on a shelf, you order it, it goes to a cart, and it ships to you. And, you know, used to be elated when it would come in three days. And now some of the stuff is coming same day, you know, so like that customer mindset has completely changed. And they want everything today, you know, tomorrow’s not even an option. I want it today. But we got to customize it, right? So it just takes you just have to, you know, do what you can to meet the demand. And the the introduction of more technology to our space has enabled that right, because you have the tech on the back end, which does the actual production of the garment. But now you really marry that to the front end, which is the interface that the customer interacts with. And then you gotta get them talking to each other. And that’s, that’s a real big challenge in our industry.

Curt Anderson  03:01

Yeah, excellent points here. And, you know, in, there’s so many tremendous benefits here from inventory, bases, cash flow, we’re gonna dive into some of these things. But you know, what are some of the key benefits? So maybe that corporate buyer, or maybe retail restaurants, what are some of those big benefits for folks diving into it just in time? Strategy?

John LaRoy  03:21

Yeah, I mean, the first big benefit is taking the guesswork out, you know, and having the ability to offer your clients, whether it be your internal client, your external client, the ability to go get something and get it in the next couple of days, right, and not have to commit to inventory. You know, part of the problem in the online store that has exploded, you know, that wasn’t even a solution 10 years ago, we’re now you can have your own hosted, custom branded, unique online store that you can give to your customers, to your clients, to your own employees. And you can also customize that to have you know, gift card codes, performance benefits, you know, weekly or monthly, you hit your target go on to store go get a product, and it just opens up an entire world of possibilities for employee recognition, customer recognition. And, again, not having that commitment to an unknowable or unpredictable amount of, of product that might never get used. So the second you order it, it actually gets produced, which was unheard of, you know, back in, you know, everything up until about 2017. You would have to order x amount of each size and each color and it would sit somewhere in a warehouse, and you never knew if it got used or ordered and you know, then you’d have massive discounting or it would end up overseas, never to be used and or to be donated and it was a massive expense and it really prohibited a lot of people from getting into that space. is because they didn’t want to commit to inventory because there’s a financial risk, you know, and you didn’t really know how to justify or, or mitigate that risk. So, and again, too, like we talked about this in the lifetime, so it’s already carry on here, but in the corporate space, especially shirt and ties gone, you know, so like that need didn’t exist, you know, you weren’t allowed to come to work and a polo and a quarters. Or if you did, you probably won’t be working much longer. But now, if you show up in a suit and tie, it might be looked at as kind of weird. And also, like, again, that man, that demand has now exceeded the supply. And you gotta add that balance again. Yeah,

Curt Anderson  05:43

lots of great points here. You know, we were talking last week about the reputation equity and, and like you’re saying, you know, it’s all about resonating that trust immediately. So many benefits here. Again, you know, you’re talking about the flexibility, you know, versatility, you know, cost benefits, cat, you know, lower risk. Let’s go here, let’s, let’s talk about the process. Okay. So say again, I’m, you know, of a restaurant chain, or, you know, in a we’re trying to build that brand into, you know, I love what you’re saying like that customer reputation recognition. But let’s go here, let’s say I’m a corporate buyer, or, you know, boy, this sounds great. I don’t have to have all sorts of inventory. So walk us through that process, you know, lining with a partner like apparel redefined? What does that look like when you you know, from start to finish? Sure,

John LaRoy  06:29

absolutely. So the first step is identifying First, your logo, right? Do you have a logo, do you have, you know, the right files or what we need, because if we don’t, we can help you want, we can walk you through that process of getting your logo print ready for all the different mediums that we’re going to produce it on. The second step of that process is if you want to go digital, and you want to have an online presence and online marketplace, we’re going to build that store for you. And as many products or as little products as you want. On the storefront, we have some recommendations, you know, sometimes, too many can cause decision paralysis, right? You know, you get overwhelmed. And that overwhelming feeling causes you not to do anything, where we see the sweet spot, usually between no more than, like 15 to 20 products. But again, completely up to you now we work on a structure, you know, from a corporate side, are your employees paying for it? Are they paying for some of it are paying for all of it? Do you want to have a special cause, like we do a lot of stuff for like Susan G. Komen, and breast cancer awareness. Right now we have, we have the MS. MS walks all over the city. So we have corporate clients that have dedicated stores with a specific design around the events, and the company kind of married together. And we had that, you know, going live for all all of our corporate clients as we speak. So once you have that you have the storefront built, then it really comes down to marketing, right? You know, how do we push that out internally, externally, whatever, whatever you want to do. So it’s so simply to be shared with email list, whatever company message board, whatever they use, internally, simply a link, we can also have flyers. But it makes it really easy. And you can order what you know, on your phone, scan it with a QR code, the restaurants, the restaurants that are promoting their brand, you know, on those little cards that have their, their special drinks or specials on the backside of it, there’s a QR code so that if they wanted to get their favorite t shirt from a bar, they can scan it, and it brings them right to the ordering page. So yeah, the technology and the online store presence is really enabled. Really a seamless interaction. And again, because people are used to ordering online, I mean, that’s one of the things that you five years ago, even six, seven years ago, people were like, I’m not ordering online, I’m gonna get my credit card stolen, right? You had to you had to get over that, that mental hump, and now it’s just everyone’s ordering online at least once a week, maybe several times a day, you know, depending on the Amazon addiction that my wife has. And myself, I’m not gonna lie. So. But yeah, yeah. So once you have your storefront built, you got two products picked. Before the store goes live, I should back up a little bit there. We’ve mock up everything you know, so you can see it. Is this what you want leave and send you samples, you know, because that’s the thing and apparel, one of the challenges and tech is going to sell this soon. How does it fit? You know, is it because every brand is a little bit different representation of small and medium and large is an athletic Guide is a boxy guide, is it an oversized cut. So that’s one of the things that is still kind of a frontier in our industry, because it can vary even within brand because it’s being produced at different spots. So what we typically recommend, you know, for stuff that’s going to be you know, a bit more pricey, you know, you know, Nike polo Under Armour, polo Lululemon Patagonia, we recommend that we send a sizing round On, especially if it’s going to be worn, you know, at work for people to try on if they wish, you know, and then it’s kind of their, it’s in the in the workplace. And then they have the back end of it all the way through kitting. You know, what’s really big is kind of like brand in a box, right? Where you if you have a remote workforce, which obviously a lot of people have moved to or hybrid, a little bit new office a little bit at home, you can get your brand in a box, where you get a nice branded box with your company, logo, corporate logo, you got your Yeti, you got your polo a quarter zip, some pens, paper, whatever, whatever you want. And that can be quarterly monthly. I don’t know about weekly, but you know, if you want it, we can do it.

Curt Anderson  10:43

Yeah, that’s fantastic. So you know, tons of, you know, so you walk through the process, you know, of, you know, the benefits of, you know, going through the just in time concept. So, you know, putting yourself in that buyers shoes, you know, you use the word like seamless, frictionless, how can we make it as easy as possible? Everybody now is online, you know, like you said, you know, Amazon, there’s somebody delivering, you know, something to my house, it seems like daily, it’s just so convenient. And we’ve got the same process here for that just in time concept. So let’s go here, we’re talking about all the benefits, we walk through the process. Let’s go like if I’m, again, corporate buyer on looking for a new partner to go this direction, you know, what I’m doing is not working. Now. I’ve got to make it I’ve got to make a change. What you know, putting ourselves in that buyers shoes, what are some factors that they should consider when interviewing someone like yourself somebody in apparel redefined? What recommendations do you have in that alignment?

John LaRoy  11:40

What part of the process do you control? Right? And I think the selfishly, it should be all right. You know, I mean, because there is a lot that needs to happen from when the order is placed. Depending on what platform you’re using, to then where does the magic happen? Where’s the sausage made? You know, is that something that this company is outsourcing, because then you’re losing control, right. And if you lose control, you lose control of the speed and the quality. We do it all, you know what I mean? We got the front end, we got the middle of taking your and then we got the execution out on the shop floor, or we’re doing it and then fulfilling it out of the same building as well. So that’s one of the questions I would ask. Because it is important, because you know, we’re not we’re not perfect. We do make mistakes. And when mistakes happen, how can we get it fixed? And how fast can we get that new product or replace product to our client or to our customer? So that’s really important. And then consistency, right? You know, how is that being managed process? How are we held accountable? Is there transparency in the process? Does your online presence allow the whoever’s in charge of this program, because usually, as we seen it, now, apparel can become the hot potato that no one wants to touch, right? It’s kind of like, Hey, you’re in charge of ordering for this event. I don’t care how it gets done, just get it done. Right. And everyone doesn’t want to look bad, everyone inherently wants to look good. And whether that be, you know, a polo or a t shirt, but I’m saying like, your your reputation as you how you deliver that project for your boss, for your company, whatever. It should be seamless, it should be frictionless. And how does that happen? And the reporting on the front end, where it’s like, hey, you know, we went out and we got we put the link out, the stores closing or the stores, you know, expected to deliver you have all that transparency to see who ordered what they ordered, sizes, delivered time, all that type of stuff on the front end. So again, you don’t have to kind of say, Oh, God, I hope it gets here or I hope everyone ordered. You have you have the control that you need. But the responsibility that you don’t want essentially, yeah,

Curt Anderson  13:55

that’s I think the key word in that whole segment right? There was transparency, right? People love to you know, my wife and I just went in our family went to a wonderful restaurant you know, it’s a land you know, Italian landmark everybody loves it. And they have like big glass windows you can see them actually it’ll lead you’re saying like making the sausage that transparency that’s why they’ve been around for 100 years. You know, I think people want to you know, just give me the peace of mind of when is my you know, what’s the process when is my product gonna be here what I’ve really admired with my relationship with apparel redefined is you guys just really go all in embracing technology. Okay. Talk a little bit about you know, what some of the competitive advantages are the technology advantages that either that you’ve been, you’ve seen in the industry, or most importantly what you’re doing at an apparel redefined? Sure.

John LaRoy  14:45

So there’s a lot right so from an execution standpoint or production, we’re talking about Justin time apparel. You can have speed but you have quality right? And being in the screen printing world for 90 yours were screenprint snobs, and we didn’t want to bring in a solution that we couldn’t stand behind. So we spent three years researching, and trying to find a partner and a manufacturing piece of equipment that would stand behind or withhold our standards. We want durability, we want consistency, we want quality and speed. And those are, those are three things that are, you know, tough to balance, you can get one or two, it’s tough to get all three. And for the better part of two, three years, we flew all over the country, we tested all different types of manufacturing partners. And again, like in terms of the three things we’re looking for, it’s also relationship. I mean, this is a manufacturing niche that you serve. It’s not if it goes wrong, it’s when it goes wrong. And do you have that partnership? Because downtime is a real thing? And how do you minimize it? Right? So we have a partner that we picked, and we’ve been working with for over a year now. And there’s only five of these machines in the globe, we have one of them. And the durability, the quality is absolutely phenomenal. So, again, being able to offer a better product, higher quality, with more options was really important to us, you know, it’s like, yeah, you can do it. But if it comes off after two or three washes, what good is that? Right? You know, like, this is this is something that’s important. You know, I mean, we talked about in the last show, like, what is your brand’s promise? What are you delivering? Through that piece of apparel? Like, what does that saying about you, not only to your customer, but to your superior employee, if they get that piece of apparel, and it washes off, right, it looks like crap. So it’s really important that that doesn’t happen. And that’s where we really dove into the technology. Because we understand it, we’ve been a part of it. And it was really important for us. And in the middle side. You know, it’s really great that you’re able to produce, but how do you get the orders to the machine. So there’s a lot of connection of software that we didn’t really expect to do. But we found out we had to write, and the connections, the middlewares, the web hooks back and forth, and then flowing into our manufacturer manufacturing execution system that we call normals. It’s a huge investment in software tack. But again, it’s all because we want to deliver the transparency, consistency and speed that’s essential and the print on demand just in time world, you know, if that’s what you’re going to say you’re going to do it? Well, you better do it.

Curt Anderson  17:38

Yeah, that I couldn’t love that term more that brands prop, you know, what is your brand’s promise, you know, when you’re dealing with customer, whether you’re making a product or a service, whatever solution that you provide, just, you know, hey, when I’m going to do it, and you also through this conversation, you’ve shared a lot of that transparency, and a vulnerability side of like, it’s not if something’s going to happen, it’s when something’s happens. And how do we communicate that and tackle through that, you know, I’ve had the honor and privilege of seeing that machine in action, you know, you really have the Ferrari of print on demand. And it is it is something to see, we have a video on on the website, you know, showing that machine in action, and I absolutely love it. Let’s go here, John, as we’re talking to, you know, get in speaking to that buyer out there. They’re like, Man, this is kind of, you know, I’m digging this what you guys are saying here, the just in time your you know, seamless, frictionless, what are some potential challenges or pitfalls somebody might encounter, making that transition, trying to get into that just in time level of inventory.

John LaRoy  18:40

Some of the pitfalls I might encounter is product selection. Not everything can be done in the just in time world, there’s still some limitations from a technology side from an application side. But as we continue to improve processes, equipment, inks, fabrics, that will change, but if you’re looking for you know that that magic bullet for everything is not there yet, right? Because there’s a ying and yang, if you want this, you’re gonna give up that. So making sure that you have communication with your provider, that if you’re looking for truly just on time, just in time products, that that will fit within what’s possible, excuse me what’s possible. Because you if you want high quality and speed, there is something that has to you know, you have to give up on something or give a little bit to get to get what you want. So having that communication with a person and understands it. And again, this is the problem. If you’re not actually doing the work. salespeople will tell you anything you want to hear, right, but do they know actually what they’re trying to sell is going to work for the application. So yeah, that’s that’s one of the pitfalls they’re expecting a just in time product one it won’t be just in time. There’s an It’ll mum, or it can’t be done with a with a digital print. So yeah, just understanding application process and product.

Curt Anderson  20:07

Yeah, in brief points there, and I want to dive into, you know, you and I taught referencing our last conversation quite a bit. But we took a deep dive into sustainability, you know, that is just such a fourth, you know, forefront conversation on everybody’s mind in some capacity, energy, this everything. What I love is, you know, as a business owner, or you know, you’re a corporate warrior, wherever you’re at in a food chain, boy, inventory control can be decades inventory control equals cash flow. And you know, that just in time can really be a nice competitive advantage for folks, especially that are going through a lot, you know, whether the resellers distributors selling a lot of product that just in time concept can be huge. Talk a little bit about the advantages from a sustainability and inventory control on what just in time can do for somebody out there.

John LaRoy  20:54

Yeah, it’s crazy. I don’t know if we talked about this last time or not, but like, one of, I think, number, it’s in the top five of what is the top five product that’s in a landfill, right, and it’s apparel and mainly T shirts, right, you know, people that have 1520 30 of them in, in our, in our closet, but at some point, they get thrown away? Well, that’s when their purchase, right? But there’s so much stuff that isn’t purchased, because either it’s out of date, you know, like when you attach a date to a T shirt for an event, once that event has passed, it’s it’s kind of useless, right? You have all this stuff that you know, people are 100% convinced and branding companies and marketing come this is going to sell it’s going to work, and then it doesn’t. So what do you got, you have all this excess waste that ends up in a landfill, right? And it’s really, you know, useless at that point, it’s a waste of materials, a waste of time, it’s a waste of resources. So that just in time concept really helps cut into that, you know, you you don’t have to produce anything until it’s sold. And at that point, you know, it’s going to someone or somewhere and you don’t have all this excess inventory and excess product and excess waste and excess labor that, you know, really is outdated, you know, that that whole, that whole concept of you know, creating prey is gone, you know, or will be gone. Yeah,

Curt Anderson  22:26

I love that. So, so sustainability inventory control. Now with that, I want to slide into one thing, you know, you do a great job with customization, you know, so, I’m a buyer and, you know, hey, this sounds great, John, but you know, a lot of my stuff is customize, you know, how walk us through it again, if you get, you know, check out John’s facility and check out that amazing piece of machinery that you have, but you have a lot of flexibility when it comes to customization touch.

John LaRoy  22:52

Well, one thing I always say is that machines produce and people create, you know, which is crazy, because like with AI, and how much it’s impacted the world in the last really 12 months, six months, every, every time you open up your email or some new app or some new AI or some other reason the world is going to end. But at the end of the day, the people still create the machines produced, right? So the people drive their creation in that creative process, right? Because that’s still something that humans are doing better than than AI in the machines. And you really need that partner, you know, I mean to make that magic happen, because if you again, what is your brand promise? What are you trying to deliver? What are you trying to convey on this medium of a T shirt? And, you know, we have we have a very talented graphic design team that can help you if you need it. If not, and you have your own team, you know, we can we can work with that as well. But again, it’s just understanding from the forefront what you’re trying to do is an employee reward. Is it a new promotion? Is it getting a message out there? You know, all that is very possible and the greatest again, piece of marketing that I think is out there is is branded apparel. Yeah,

Curt Anderson  24:11

fantastic. So let’s start with start winding down. Let’s touch on any any specific examples, case studies, success stories that come to mind on you know, where that just some time somebody made that transition is really absolutely

John LaRoy  24:22

yeah, we got to we got a client that is a leader in their niche. And when you will come on to their website. I just want to say because we want to I’m not gonna give out names. We want to protect the client here. I feel that especially in eComm, right? In life ego, you get one shot. You spent all this money on marketing to get people to your site. If they want to come by and you don’t have with your you know, you don’t you can’t sell what they want to buy, whether it’s out of stock, or it’s on backorder you might never get that person Again, and all that money you invested to get that click is now blown away. And you don’t know the other benefits or the negative effect of the comments. Not even digitally, but socially the spoken word of like, Hey, I went to this guy’s site, and they didn’t have what I wanted. It’s that part of it is really unmeasurable, right. So your entire brand again, what is your promise your customer, your promise doesn’t look good. If you go to the store, and you don’t have something to sell, you know, if I’m going to a new grocery store, and I’m looking for apples for my son, right, apples, I’m probably not going to go back there again, you know what I mean? So what I’m getting at Long story short is this, this brand, and this company we work with, will never be out of stock ever again. And I think like at one point, they had over 2000 skews. And now that sounds like a lot. But like each size, small, medium, large, has its own SKU, and they had probably, you know, 150 different designs. And at one point there was over 270 skews out of stock. Because prior to coming to just in time, they had to wait until they got 144 pieces of that specific design to reorder. Right? Because it was it’s really, really great art. I mean, it’s there’s super talented artists that make this stuff. But it’s like 14 color prints. So you need a minimum of at least 144, sometimes 288. And again, you’re guessing how many smalls out of that 144? Should I order how many mediums and that’s what you would see you would see these massive gaps where you’d have that design still in stock. But you’d have no extra larges. Right? So we really help that client. So like, what we were able to do is like, hey, send out your marketing, you have all 288 Like they had they had backlogs and backlogs and 1000s of people that they were just saying, hey, we’ll get you your T shirt when we’re able to reorder, but it could take months. You know, so now you go into the grocery store, you have 10,000 apples, you know what I mean? And you have everything that you could possibly want to sell. And, you know, when you when you talk about licensing, you know, there’s there’s all there’s a lot of people that need to eat and ecom you know, especially if you’re working with a licensed product, the licensees want to make money, you want to make money, your customers want the product, and this is a perfect marriage to allow all three to eat, and, and deliver high quality product, you know, to the customer. So yeah, that’s a perfect case study. And there’s, there’s there’s so many people out there that are in that space where they’ve had a really good brand for a really long time. But it was built on an old model. And there is some trepidation that change to the new digital platform. But I guess seeing is believing, Doubting Thomas, we were talking about my sons before the before before the call. And yeah, I mean, it’s natural, but we really help people overcome that. And once they start seeing the sales numbers, it’s like, why did we wait so long? Yeah, the

Curt Anderson  28:00

sales and again, the cash flow, inventory control, you know, serving the customer. And I just I think that promise to your customer is just such a profound effect. We might, we might have to start we might have to trademark right. The copyright that term right there promises your customer. I love that. So let’s wrap up. Last question for you. Future. What’s the future hold? You know, you’ve mentioned numerous times since 2017. Since COVID, you know, the, you know, all the changes, dramatic changes, changes with AI, you know, get the crystal ball out my friend, you know, moving forward, where do you see branded apparel? Most importantly, the topic we’re hitting today, just in time? Where do you see the what’s the future hold for us?

John LaRoy  28:42

Continuing to push the envelope, you know, so much has changed in the last five years, where you had 7060 years of really no innovation to our space, right? You know, it was like, Hey, here’s your T shirt. Here’s our print capabilities. And that’s it. So what you’re gonna see is what we talked a little bit earlier, right? Where just in time print on demand. It’s it was a very tiny box, like if you wanted that this is this is all you could offer that’s beginning to grow. So being able to have that print on demand capability across all different fabrics, all different products that’s evolving literally every day. So yeah, I see the ability to offer print on demand on all different fabrics. All different products continue to expand. But everything has its union Yang, right, you know, I mean, like you see it in Major League Baseball right now, you know, Nike and fanatics they want it to a thinner, lighter, more, you know, whatever uniform and now they’re all falling apart and are see through and you have players clamoring like why did we change? This wasn’t a problem. You know, I want my tool jersey. This looks cheap. So yeah, you know, there’s a balance, you know, the technology can move too far. Is that pendulum right? It swings too far and gotta come back to the balance. So we’re gonna continue to push the envelope, a lot more tech platforms connecting with the suppliers, you know, that’s a major innovation that’s happening in our industry, which is already happened in many other manufacturing sectors. But we’re just kind of late to the game where you have your distributors, you have your suppliers, and you have your producers, and all of them were not speaking to each other, you didn’t know if products were in stock, and, you know, coming out of supply chain issues. So getting those those three different parties connected, is coming most of its here, but it still needs to be perfected. And then, again, continue to elaborate or push customer transparency because Amazon’s you know, push that, you know, you order you get your notification. And whether or not people look at it, they expect it.

Curt Anderson  30:55

Yeah, tons. All right, live sudden pack, you know, and again, if you know, wonderful conversation here, we’ve talked about the speed, transparency, the brand promise, what’s the promise to your customer, we’ve sustainability, inventory control, just immense, immense advantages, huge benefits for folks in this space. Any parting thoughts, words of wisdom that you want to wrap us up with today?

John LaRoy  31:22

I would just say like, something that I had heard, I thought was a really good, really good point of view is like if you’re if you’re working with a partner, or an apparel provider, promotional consultant, whatever you have, I would just ask, like, when was the last time they challenged you? When was the last time they communicated with you? And when was the last time they deliver value? Because to me, those three things like what makes a good partner, they should be challenging you. They should be providing value, and they should be talking to frequently. And if they’re not doing that, potentially, it might be time to find someone else. And those are three things that, you know, I think we really, we hold near and dear here, because that’s how we’ve grown for 19 years. And that’s something that we’re committed to for the next 19 and beyond.

Curt Anderson  32:07

Well, that’s a great place to wrap up and just phenomenal. Just a great piece of advice right there for every entrepreneur and even just, you know, just human nature, right? Just that communication, delivering value. Let’s challenge each other. So, just love again, John. Thank you, John Leroy here, we’re at apparel redefined another phenomenal conversation. We appreciate you and we’ll be back next week with another wonderful conversation. So we’ll see you next week.

John LaRoy  32:32

Thanks, Curt.

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